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Joshua

Having not seen the game but only your description and the two small pics. I would have to say, no foul. It is unfortunate that the player got injured but they both look like they are trying to play the ball, tilt of the head and body positioning. I highly doubt the keep is thinking "I will use my head as a battering ram". If Webb were to have not called a foul would you agree with that or still want the SFP/DOGSO?//////

Joshua: Somewhere along the way, you seem to have missed the meaning of "careless" and "reckless", let alone "excessive force", all three of which apply to this incident. Remember that "intent" no longer applies when trying to judge a foul. If one player kicks another, whether he intended to or no, it IS a foul. Whether the referee calls it is another matter (IBD 8). This WAS a foul. Cheers, Bob.

Leigh W. Davis

When I saw this I thought Schumacher, Battiston, & Corver. By comparison, Mr. Webb's cautioning of Schwarzer was brilliant! He took some disciplinary action! Wait. Nevermind. Mr. Corver must have decided that Schumacher's leap at Battiston after Battiston had played the ball made for "an honest collision between two players attempting to win a ball in the air[.]" Therefore, even calling a foul on Schumacher would have been wrong.

In all seriousness, perhaps Mr. Webb was far enough away from the play or didn't have as good an angle as he might have wanted to show red. But he's also a highly experienced official whom we might expect to be able to tell certain things from the physical reactions as you suggest.

LWD

Gil Weber

1982 World Cup. France vs Germany.

Harald Schumacker (Germany's GK) charges out and simply obliterates France's Patrice Batiston.

Nowhere near getting the ball, no foul called, no card given.

What were the referee and lead AR looking at?

See this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3byTNRoxujo

Yikes. :o(

We simply have to be better than that travesty or the incident Bob describes.

marian

I agree with Joshua. I don't consider the challenge unfair. Schwarzer clearly attempts the ball, doesn't uses elbows. Both players clash with heads so the injury is unfortunate. however, it don't see foul there.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Marian:
I don't know how to respond, because it seems to me that you, like Joshua, have completely missed the point of putting the words "careless" and "reckless" and "excessive force" into the law. A goalkeeper cannot run out of his penalty-area and flatten an opponent with a full-body smash that opens up his scalp. YOU HAVE TO PENALIZE SUCH THINGS. At the very least it is reckless. "ATTEMPTING THE BALL" DOES NOT EXCUSE IT. Best wishes, Bob.

Gil Weber

Bob, it appears that some readers have forgotten that the word "intent" was removed from Law 12 except as it applies to handling. That is, it's no longer intentionally tripping an opponent that's a foul, or intentionally kicking an opponent that's a foul. The fact that the opponent was tripped (or pushed, held, or whatever) makes it a foul by definition.

It's then up to the referee to decide if it's trivial or meaningful. If trivial then play continues. If it's meaningful the referee will blow the whistle or apply advantage.

So an argument that the GK was attempting to play the ball does not negate the fact that the challenge by definition was a foul.

Once an action is identified as a foul the more critical decision for the referee is to decide if the action rises to the level of misconduct -- a caution and yellow card or send off and red card.

Joe McHugh

Hi I actually watched this game live. When I saw the challenge first I did not react with a 'He has to go' view. When I watched the replay that view was confirmed to me with both players making a genuine attempt to win the ball. Schwarzer has only eyes for the ball and IMO it was an unfortunate coming together. Many times both player get up, dust each other off and play continues with a free kick and a caution to the 'late' player. Also refs in PL build up an opinion on players and their behaviour. Schwarzer would not be seen as a 'dirty' player and perhaps given the benefit of any doubt. The other interesting reaction is that of the players. None confronted the GK in a negative fashion as they would do on what would be seen as a cynical challenge. Finally had Schwarzer got there first and the Blackburn player made contact with him that would IMO have been a DFK and a caution.

John Douglas

Interesting thoughts shared so far. So clearly when a player slides and tackles for the ball, clearly wins the ball (without endangering the opponent) and then the opponent trips over his leg, you would suggest since he tripped the player he committed a foul? Certainly there are fair challenges that occur in a game where the result is a trip, a charge, a kick, even a "strike" - that are not judged as a trifling foul, and by all competent referees, are not whistled a foul at all.

I haven't seen the entire clip. The two pictures you post suggest to me there was no foul here, only an unlucky outcome from two players giving it their all. The ball is clearly in an acceptable area to be played in the fashion that both players attempted to play it, and without having seen the live action/been there to see where the keeper was looking, I suggest by your picture that the keeper made every effort to legally play the ball and whatever the result was an unfortunate accident - the result of two professional athletes in a contact sport doing their jobs.

I have a feeling that Howard Webb brings out a yellow card only because he felt he had to do "something" but that he potentially felt that this was a fair challenge where one guy got more unlucky than the other. Had the goalkeeper taken the brunt of the injury and the attacker gotten up on short order, yet it was the exact same play - do you suggest the attacker would be sent off for SFP?

Rich Vilalobos

So the GK committed a tactical foul and was only guilty of unsporting behavior? Or maybe the GK was guilty of handling the ball outside the PK area? Howard Webb is a joke, he obviously didn't learn anything from his horrible World Cup performance. I use his picture in my clinics to show what a referee, who lacks the courage to issue a red card, looks like.

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